A church can be large, successful, and led by a world famous pastor and not be the ideal. The celebrity pastor culture at the church and pastor emphasis on the website distract from Jesus. As part of its release, we decided to turn it into a campaign in our church and around the country. When theres incongruence, its best to side with God. The gospel is that were all sinners and are going to Hell, Jesus came to Earth as man and God to live a sinless life and He took the punishment for our sins on the cross. (RNS) Saddleback Church pastor Rick Warren on Sunday (June 6) announced the church will begin the official search for his successor, signaling he will retire after 40 years in his pulpit.. Stop sieving the Bible through your worldview and presuppositions. A woman wrestling with depression. You might not like 1 Timothy 2:12, but it exists. People are not perfect nor are churches. I thought I would be all alone in my opinion of Warrens book, and I was partially correct. (* I have read through the leader information when previously considering starting CR in a previous church.). I'm so happy to say that my church now has a campus on my hometown of South Bay here in . Because after the Orange County megachurch ordained three women as associate pastors, it named Stacie Wood, wife of the churchs senior pastor, Andy Wood, a teaching pastor. I know Im just a regular person and havent started my own female-ordaining mega-church, but maybe having access to Gods Word should have been a bit sooner? And, without a doubt, that is so true of me. And he does this by making the gospel and his church easier for the world to tolerate, but its so watered down it is barely recognizable. I dont know if someone designed the Rick Warren pastor page to be this cringeworthy on purpose or if it was a terrible accident. Yes, theology is important and doctrine matters. In my tiny corner of the internet, I am sharing concerns about a hugely popular pastor. You made a good point. And as a side note: A large audience (which is what Saddleback has) is not necessarily indicative of a successful church. You are a small petty jealous man. It is your opinion that you find the message to not be clear. Saddleback Church Clears Rick Warren's Successor of Allegations of I went to Saddleback in 2000, and Rick Warren wrote The Purpose Driven Life in 2002. A couple of examples include Luke 11:37-54 (the woes) and Luke 13:14-17 (calling out hypocrites). Progressive Christianity: https://thesetapartwalk.com/progressive-christianity-not-all-progress-is-good/ Your opinion can influence someone who possibly is thinking about attending church to the first time, and discouraging them. (I dont promote my own church because I encourage local church membership.) Third, experiences dont trump the Bible. The website provides the Cliffs Notes version of the gospel. Yes, thats right. Pastor Rick Warren speaks during an outdoor Easter service at Saddleback Church, which just returned to in-person worship, on Thursday evening, April 1, 2021. Its wisdom. Saddleback Church, Rick Warren, The Purpose Driven Life, and Celebrate Recovery have always been on my something-aint-right-here list. May God bless you and continue to use you. Warren started the Southern California church in 1980 after graduating. Pastor Rick Warren delivers last Saddleback Church sermon Sunday - Los He was buried and resurrected 3 days later, defeating death and offering us the free gift of salvation. Christians ought to start with the Bible, not tack it onto what they already believe. Rick Warren to retire as lead pastor of Saddleback Church Im not going to do a whole post about why female pastors are not biblical. Before this ordaining women fiasco, though, I already had reservations about Rick Warren and Saddleback Church. We equip and inspire pastors and senior church leaders to provide strategic, real-world pastoral care, by delivering practical, biblically based encouragement and insights that have application for preaching, counseling, visitation, lay leader training, and outreach planning. What is happening now seems to me to be a great divorce from Baptist history and heritage, said Cole, who tweets his thoughts on the SBC under the handle @baptistblogger. I write because I have seen and heard so much false teaching that women take in like candy over the years. On Sunday, Warren harked back to the original. So, if someone in my church sinned against me, then Id follow those steps rather than publicly rebuke her. I left the website knowing that I have a place to have purpose, and Rick Warren is peachy keen. He also refuses to refute homosexuality. Im supposed to be the one who doesnt have any needs myself. I dont think weve done a great job of understanding our own needs, our own humanity, so weve often tried to live beyond our limits. Now, some Southern Baptists fear an ultraconservative ideological wing of the organization is imposing its own beliefs and values on other churches. And Im glad to see that you understand the importance of salvation. A regular occurrence in The Purpose Driven Life, it seems. The crowd and energy of an event can feed all kinds of off the cuff comments that dont work out well. I understand its Saddlebacks website, and I would expect it to encourage people to join them. So many people out here in South Bay has been praying for years for a Saddleback campus, and through God's will, daring faith vision, and persistency, the prayers have now been answered. You should have watched and listen to the Saddleback sermon this Sunday. Everything you wrote is factual, it is an assessment based on Gods Word, not the relativistic moods of society. As for Pastor Warren, there are a couple reasons I havent spoken to him. Although we do not see eye to eye on this topic, I do pray you have many blessings in the years to come. It says they have to be temperate. Can you articulate that? And praise the Lord! 1. Get a Bible There it is! You never wavered in your spirit of love but you told the truth and backed it up with the Word of God. Tell us about your role at Saddleback Church. Among those who worry about an increasingly authoritarian stance by the SBC is Benjamin Cole, 46, a former Southern Baptist pastor in Texas who has been attending Southern Baptist conventions for nearly 30 years. (RNS) Leaders at Rick Warren's Saddleback Church say a preliminary investigation has cleared Andy Wood, Warren's recently announced successor, of allegations made by a former . Because as weve seen with Beth Moore, Mothers Day appears to negate the strict biblical mandates of pastoral ministry in liberal American churches. Dwight McKissic, senior pastor of Cornerstone Baptist Church in Arlington, Texas, shared his displeasure on Twitter, writing that the decision to "disfellowship" Saddleback was not about. Thanks for the comment, but Im not sure what your Bible reference has to do with my post. Its not becoming of a lady who is set apart. Women can use avenues such as serving in church and political appointments to accomplish this charge. Your opinion couldve prevented someone from finding God. Oh, dear. Saddleback Church has been at the head of Christian news headlines in the last several weeks. You are a true Berean. The Beatitudes are generally accepted as descriptions of the character of Gods kingdom. I really appreciate your thought on this issue. LOL. A Southern Baptist pastor on thinking, talking and praying about the recent sex abuse scandal. He has limited gifts. He has limited time, limited focus, limited boundaries. Apparently, Warren plucked it out of Job without thought of the true meaning of the text. One exercise I do with pastors is called the Replenishment Cycle. I can assure you that I spent time prayerfully considering the points you made in your comment. I hope to add to the small chorus of conservative Christian women in the world. We actually changed some of our terminology: Instead of considering yourself the leader of this small group, could you just host a group in your home and facilitate? Just that simple language change made a difference. Im assuming you are thinking about Matthew 18:15-17 about handling disputes. Ive seen people completely renewed after salvation. Also, congratulations on your sobriety. Just pray for all the liberals daking a belief in the Bible n Jesus Christ. The Southern Baptist Convention on Tuesday ousted its second-largest congregation Saddleback Church, the renowned California megachurch founded by pastor and best-selling author Rick Warren for having a woman pastor. If a whole post on the subject is wrong, then I wonder how much is acceptable to you. Influential Pastor Rick Warren has announced that after more than 40 years as the lead pastor of Saddleback Church in California, he will be soon stepping back from his current role with the church and has begun the process of searching for his successor. And women have been created as suitable helpers to men (Genesis 2:18), not the other way around. Its difficult to find critical reviews of it. Put some of your training online, or give volunteers a handout. Outside of church, God has used many women to spread the Word and lead others biblically. The church, led by founding pastor Rick Warren, made the announcement via Facebook, saying the best days are ahead of the congregation. My concerns about Rick Warren and Saddleback are not about mistakes, though. The vote by the convention's Executive Committee culminates growing tension between the nation's largest Protestant denomination . Additionally, I know many Southern Baptists have spoken about their concerns with Saddleback and had zero response. Saddleback, like many mega-churches, uses its online platform (the website) as a marketing strategy with testimonials, self-help sayings (You werent just meant to believe; You were made to belong.), and an almost idolatrous love of the pastor/founder. Pastors need to protect their own personal walk with God. Last week, though, Saddleback Church finally did something outright unbiblical. A few years ago it was Calvinism. Megachurch Pastor Rick Warren Resigns From Position At Saddleback Church Whos right ,and Who is wrong! The short answers are as follows: I was saved on May 3, 2009. Bill Hybels, senior pastor of Willow Creek Community Church, said that in ministry youve got to be able to discern the difference between good hard and destructive hard. Good hard is healthy sacrifice. Then, one day my wife said, Theres always a reason or a season why you cant be who youre supposed to be. I had to get to the place where I really owned my spiritual health. In Matthew 5:8 Jesus is addressing the Pharisees teaching that following the Law would save you. I suppose I stepped on some toes here, but sometimes we need our toes stepped on, right? Be discerning. Deborah was the judgea political leaderover Israel in Judges 4. In other books, he refers to woman that held churches in their houses, such as Nympha in Colossians 4:15 and Chloe in 1 Corinthians 1:11. My issue with Saddleback Church has nothing to do with nonessential issues. So, when a Christian recovery program misuses and abuses Scripture, I see a secular program with a veneer of Christianity. I think its part of acknowledging our limits; God gives us permission to stop, even though theres still more that could be done. For now, lets move on. That may sound cynical. If you could just manage your environment better, you wouldnt burn out. Paul was crucified for sticking to the Faith. Churches like Saddleback assure people of their salvation when theyve never heard the whole gospel. Warrens church identifies as Southern Baptist, and they are out of step with Southern Baptist beliefs in ordaining women. There are endless arguments against this teaching, but they are all just grasping at straws to fight against a plain biblical teaching that does not suit modern-day sensibilities. What should believers do about pastors who lead others astray? Rather, I am asking people to reconsider Rick Warren and Saddleback. A generation ago, a pastor was the only voice in his community. Instead, Im comparing Bible teaching to Warrens teaching. If anything, you didnt go far enough, but you were 100% correct. I have spent some time looking up CR, meditation, and even that quote specifically since I read your question. Give people a simple, easy, low-cost opportunity to get involved. How to restore broken marriages after an affair, part 1, 3 ways pastors can help women and families experiencing postpartum depression, Pastoral care and refuge for rape victims, How your pastoral limitations can bless your churches. So, even if I didnt think female ordination was a problem, Saddleback is still in the wrong. No content on this site may be reused in any fashion without written permission. 4. (All the information I share in this section is from the Saddleback Church website, unless otherwise noted.). Although a valid right of yours to disagree with me, it doesnt mean Im not allowed to speak. You then went on to tell me what kind of posts I should be posting instead and how to correct my post to make it more palpable to you. This blog post is not to teach what I think is right, Brittany. We should all avoid proof texting. Hey Charles. Frequently Asked Questions All we must do is repent and believe. We fail, and the gospel is the good news that Jesus has offered us as the way to be reconciled to God. Tibayan. If we understand what Jesus did for us and why, then, in order to be saved, we need to repent of our sins and believe Jesus is who He says He is. I think asking the why question puts pastors on a path to be more emotionally healthy. Pissing on everybody else doesnt make your walk look any better, love. I sometimes look back at that season and tell people that it was both the most intoxicating and toxic season of my life. Im a pastors wife and mother to 5 children. Thats my experience, at least. Im not the first or last Christian to address this topic. So does verse 13 that gives the reason. Shortly After Ordaining Women Pastors, Rick Warren Announces His Retirement Pastor Warren is a very public figure with a huge influence, and he falls under the mark and avoid category (Romans 16:17-18). Died: Celebrate Recovery Founder John Baker, Who Shifted E | News You have no cause to be angry at me. Its not minor to openly and unrepentantly disobey Gods Word by ordaining female pastors. I went to Saddleback in 2000, and Rick Warren wrote The Purpose Driven Life in 2002. Scriptural qualifications also say pastors must be apt to teach, they must be the husband of one wife, they must be not given to wine its all in the Bible in 1st Timothy Chapter 3. But I learned that as insidious as the external things are, the internal things are more insidious. I really didnt handle it well, and its part of that journey that resulted ultimately in me doing Replenish. I would appreciate any input. The church faces short-lived criticism but no practical consequences. Im really enjoying reading through this forum. I think the biggest question pastors need to ask is, Why am I so driven? I pray for him, and others in a similarly unique position of influence regularly, but I believe it is cowardly and unloving to not warn others of bad Bible teaching. Ministry today might be as complex as its ever been in the history of the world. 1 John 4:1 teaches that we are to be diligent in determining if the teaching is from God or not. Youre a rare gem in that way. Sabbath to me is different than a day off. What Christ is Warren suggesting people accept? Thanks for having an open mind and not assuming I am coming at things with bad intentions. Not so much. Freeimages.com. He makes people who prefer authoritarian evangelical structures bristle. I always used the excuse that this was just for a season. His teachings and poor handling of Scripture are corrupting the gospel, assuring some people of a salvation they cannot have yet because they have not recognized their wickedness and need for salvation, and/or made believers who follow him unequipped to handle the Word because he doesnt consistently use it correctly. The Bible portrays a special position for females in the church and society. Ultimately, thats what we need to doview teachings through the sieve of Gods Word. This demonstrates a complete ignorance of who God is. Lots of people know the Truth, but there is only one place to find it. Hi Julie, I agree with much of what you say, though I think you are over thinking it God uses many questionable things but people get saved. Witnesses offer conflicting accounts, Mars Voltas lead singer broke with Scientology and reunited with the band. I have great news for you! You dont have to agree, but Google it and youll find plenty of Bible scholars who would agree with me. Rick Warren's Saddleback successor triggers 'shock' and 'fear' | Church He is now dedicated to helping leaders live and lead from a healthy soul. But churches like Saddleback lure people in with friendliness and self-help styled sermons. Rick Warren certainly seems to be slipping past a bunch of people. Lance and his wife, Connie, have been married thirty-eight years and have two married children and four beautiful granddaughters. I remind pastors all the time that ministry is not their life. On the other hand, continued CR attendance is imperative. 2.) Know Ephesians 4. Saddleback Church Says Goodbye to Its Worship Leader of 24 Years What Saddleback Church ouster means for Southern Baptists - Los Angeles The Purpose Driven Life misuses Bible texts, so Warren can make the points he wants to. But thank you for considering what I wrote and writing a thoughtful comment. I would be less shocked if Southern Baptists had a gluttonous, drunken, mardi-gras-style orgy at the 2023 convention in New Orleans than that there would be any effort to affirm women as pastors in Southern Baptist churches. Check out this article about when he spoke to Muslims and encouraged them not to compromise their beliefs for the greater good of working together with Christians. Until then, keep quiet. As I said, earlier, the Southern Baptist Convention (SBC) has given this church carte blanche to do whatever suits Warren. The page is reminiscent of a fan page on a boy band website. The pastor doesnt have all the gifts. (Romans 14:1,22). Then give them the resources and support they need. Of course your theology probably believes that battle is futile because your sovereign uncaring god had already condemned all but those who believe as you to hell anyway. I believe that without the salvation he granted me at 26 years old, Id be a another victim of alcoholism. If you ever do find proof of that, though, I hope youll share it. And you have the same needs as anybody else. So the Southern Baptist Convention gave it the boot, Q&A: Talking about the Southern Baptist sex abuse scandal with Pastor P.J. And it fails the people who go through the program whether they leave in recovery or not. Get up to speed with our Essential California newsletter, sent six days a week. What version of the Bible is the most original? The only area you are completely off the mark (and quite innocently) is in the recovery program. Saddleback changes the SBC. We need to change how we see God, not ourselves. Leave the lost wicked dying and addicted to those who give a damn. However, Warren should be expecting, due to his popularity, that people might venture on his site who are nowhere near one of his campuses. Id rather that than allow them to continue on with liberal and progressive practices while Christian leadership nods along like everything is all good. I actually write about my struggles with sin and how God is working in my life on those things. You will also see the four steps a new believer should take. I, myself, had a dangerous drinking habit into my mid-twenties. (If youre not, then you can ignore me here.) I didnt have much time for family, and I remember sometimes my wife and I would discuss how I was never there. Whats a good first step for you to take?. Theres no greater good than salvation through Jesus Christ, but his focus is deeds not creeds. (https://www.christianpost.com/news/rick-warren-to-muslims-talk-is-cheap-let-s-work-together.html) So, I dont care how many times he gives an enjoyable sermon if he continues to deprioritize the gospel. I understand how overwhelming addiction is and how impossible it can feel to overcome. Are we going to start kicking out churches who have pastors who are intemperate? Largest church in SBC ordains three women as pastors They water down the gospel, downplay sin, and cater to worldly preferences instead of focusing on biblical principles. They have also held positions of leadership and responsibilities in spreading the Gospel. Have people been saved at Saddleback? This is why Warren's church would have fallen apart; because the church is devoid of Christ. Oh yeah, and Jesus. ), but its presented in a safe, child-like way. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves. People only have so much time, and if they say yes to your churchs volunteer opportunity, theyre saying no to something else. You make theology your God and replace Grace with your endless list of grievances. Rather than Jesus lessons about the kingdom during the Sermon on the Mount, CR is offering Your Best Life Now kinda stuff.
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