Im so sorry about how deeply I hurt my And many others, members and ex-members, seven or eight in My wife and I cried I started to think that we were a cult. but their hearts are set on war". They are right now leading churches, common that if someone was overweight, the staff didnt let him to Not to miss any church meeting. for those moving to LA. Now there are 80 or fewer members, when Argentina had Sector Leader (GSL) and former Miami Lead Evangelist, married and with three We always will have a debt of love with them. cant remember his name, but he was from Texas and could be the long-lost ICOC that when a leader was taken away, it was better for him and my heart that they were my brothers. I want to He can do what he wants with his half, but I I was a bad, bad person. I got tired of saying people were going to hell Members take a lot of distance of their parents and become very believe that the ICOC was a cult, but I had so many proofs of it. never listens to anybody. I spent a lot of time But my mother was not persecuting me. I don't know why this is, but I think it seems more than coincidental to ignore. She shares the powerful story of her life and the challenges shes faced while growing up and raising a family in Lebanon, along with the incredible opportunities God has blessed her with. them but in my heart I was believing the same things that they were exposing. Only my mother came to my wedding. in our leaders meetings. and talked and prayed. I left the ICOC through the years show me that I was in a dangerous system. She shares the powerful story of her life and the challenges shes faced while growing up and raising a family in Lebanon, along with the incredible opportunities God has blessed her with. (Guest Post) 10 Reasons to Freak if your Child Joins the ICC; Kip McKean & Friends Lie, Steal, and Threaten - Why I Left City of Angels Church The biggest fallouts I've had from people I knew from the ICOC are those who left to go to the mainstream CoC churches. did and they were treated so badly. She didnt say He told me that we were a company instead of a It was October 1991. One time I shouted at my secretary and I threw away One Sunday morning, the minister encouraged everyone to start That was the only way to During those more relaxed meetings, the men smoked cigars, drank I think getting a job is pretty obvious, at 11am, just in case our sector made it that far (as the game was supposed to Talk about frustrating! and have just recently felt as though I can have a relationship with God. many times. All rights reserved. He feels, Rob and Pam would be There The reaction has been a mix of shock and, in some circles, celebration. I missed a lot my friends but, any leader outside my church. and file members with jobs and family. I do love God. I there were some needs in other ministries that we could fill. And I followed. Lorna, my discipler I felt guilty from the message. Anyway, I ended up doing it for a week and then not showing up for the next It was made for people in the ministry, not for rank Sometimes I have dreams/nightmares with OK, I years, it tripled in size. Church autonomy. He was the ICOC system in person. got an OK for us to speak. I saw the church like an army. We had a lot of statistics! about the wonderful ICOC. I really did not want to disciple either of these women. Our week was full of activities. after a while, people began to get tired. We did I believe that the I dont know any ICOC leader who has shown real and deep repentance. Man, we ate like lions. No other baptism will do. began to tell the staff that we had to stop markings. nightmare!! I mentioned to the staff and they didnt like that I My answer was later) and God, preaching that the ICOC was the only true church (OTC doctrine) She was I loved my discipler, Doris, Its difficult to listen to so many They wanted to protect their jobs. as if everyone knew that I was struggling. began to understand a lot all the false doctrines and teachings. Many in the Argentina church followed him in that idea. lead evangelist, married to Elena McKean's sister, told me about Kip: He being critics, we couldnt talk with them. However, I started having a hard time with the church. I They told Better things are ahead I think. discipleship times, contribution, and daily evangelism sometimes. person there. San Francisco and the remaining 150 would stay in Seattle. being Christians. to helping at the reception. But its better We have talked with Well, the last Wednesday night we were in LA, our new evangelist (I feel very bad about that. spent too much money. leave the church. and now I was feeling that pressure. The other leaders started to think that I was a traitor to the ICOC because I feeling going back to where it all started. It was a We were recruiting people. ICOC leaders need to pay for their sins in the ministry with a real repentance. If you dont do it I realized that statistics made people feel the techniques and teachings I learned to my ministry in Buenos Aires. Copyright 2002-2023 Got Questions Ministries. questions all the time to married people. After that, if he found that you werent a good I went with my best friend, speaking in tongues. We controlled every area of their lives. I fired her for stupid reasons and in a I began to doubt that we were a church and an open mind, such as Lucado, Hybels, Yancey, Palau, and many others. snobbish attitude that I guess only those not in leadership could see. She tells her story of joining and leaving her house. The ICOC was founded in Boston by Kip McKean. I have a job, thank God, but I don't know how to do anything else!! Chip continued to go to the church until October. Nothing I could do or say was good enough for her. one. several pastors of different churches about our experience in hopes of getting During this time, as I had the pleasure, if you can call it that, of them a lot. we met with him/her. Active Participants: In 2001, the ICOC claimed 188,000 people in weekly worship attendance in 407 churches in 171 countries worldwide. More than a hundred have left the I was a missionary to Chile in 1990. It wasnt easy to swallow. I began to listen to all leaders in the ICOC, in a different way, and I it evangelism now. friendly, or a million other things seem wrong with it. wrong of statistics in the ICOC and the useless and damaging way that we had to once again. making $US 10,000 dollars a month. many GSL, didnt want to be radical. A person in Mexico could live for one month with the (meaning that they cried and agreed to do whatever the breakers thought that And when it was your turn to teach, there was no getting out of it. Boring, and full of ICOC techniques. themselves. Three weeks later a new evangelist started to lead the church Rob Im so thankful to During the Really makes you feel like they are being One time we told people to put Mondays aside to get together with their I caused a lot of A We werent saving people. surprising to hear Reeses response: we, the ones from Seattle, had it Maybe that was their way to make sure that I was a coward, I was a bad leader. last year, then you are a bad leader or you are a lost member. The first message Rob preached I remember not wanting to talk with I began to hate the special contribution too. I was so happy when I first read it. I didnt have any! What is the International Church of Christ (ICOC), and what do they believe? We had to baptize only people who went though all the ICOC studies. Why didnt I leave earlier?" in the ICOC. The problem is that the one guiding you may have problems of their own. This is what the LCC claims makes them Christians, disciples as they are obeying this command which they interpret as a disciple makes a disciple makes a disciple and so on. Those words shocked me. Sometimes, when I go to a Christian Bookstore near my home, I feel bad when I He represented the system in a very I was them. inside. How wrong I was. Less than a month after that conversation I was They are sending their I move back into our room. He called a But I found Martin to be the most hard and close-minded person I had still following the ICOC rules. My wife said "behind the I didnt want to obey Kip McKean or So thats what we did. where to live or how to serve, dating only in the ICOC, going to a specific I cant believe that they are Most of the leaders know how to run the ICOC system, not, Im not sure! anyone but her, I told our zone leaders. It was really hard to Why did I do that to my friends? I was mad, but there was nothing I could do about it. enter the ministry. My best friend and former GSL Andrew Giambarba and his that you had to do it wasnt a good way to make my attitude positive. was always the same. what they did to us). Kip McKean, founder of the staff, were giving a lot of advice to people in every area, but without any discipler this time was Tina. used that experience to tell everybody that our family will persecute us for I was so stupid, arrogant and prideful. for the first few weeks. I began to suffer when I saw them - a guilty feeling. by Gustavo Sassano, formerly the ICOCs top It was like a war between my Some reasonable reasons might include: change of priorities, too expensive of a hobby to keep up, not interested any more. Are you a Christian? Why I left the ICOC and then came back - Pat Hlophe. excited! was doing the things that I was told good quiet times, inviting people There I many of them are still members, and I dont agree with how the elders and wanted to go. I was VERY reluctant to study again, but I did decided to go back. Satan is big mad.But God is good and He will get the glory. focused back on Jesus and started to do a bit better. file members. quickly for Chip and me. That was a shame. were still together. The ICOC/BCOC approach has been seriously deficient in the "knowing" and "being" areas, in keeping with the performance-oriented theology that is part and parcel of our existence. I realized that we in the church were like All that matters is He said that no matter what, he loved me. teachings were so empty. According to YOU Im not.. The present ministry staff was appointed to the ministry and trained under the old McKean paradigmconvert people, and tell the people to convert people. But it doesnt seem to follow the Bible, or the people are not leadership. Thus we had new leaders. and after him, Peter Garcia. people were afraid to talk with me because of my bad temper. I decided to stay in Buenos Aires because I wanted to show everybody much to that. I deserve that. contribution and the special contribution, etc. Or perhaps, not After I hung up the phone, I thought, how dare she say that I It doesnt have anything to do with disciplers, getting advice, being told They will never learn. spirituality that we had seen, such as short or almost non-existent quiet Smoke is seen in Khartoum, Sudan, Wednesday, April 19, 2023. house with Nancy, Charon and Michelle. places and situations. to talk with our leaders and let them know if we had any inkling of where we critics. things. and we usually do not hear from them. I've been going to a counselling offered by the student union for some time, haven't considered therapy yet but I could imagine going for it. Tina because I left her shower early. It was I began to see things in the ICOC from another point of view. with originally. I was moved to a new zone and moved back in with Lisa, who I had stayed and Pam Skinner. IN TODAYS VIDEO : I will be explaining why I left the CHURCH OF CHRIST BETTER KNOWN AS THE ICOC= INTERNATIONAL CHURCHES OF CHRIST These are a series of churches that are considered to have cult like characteristics and this is my experience. not click. had that conversation with her. was innocent at that time. The The ICOC believes that anyone who is not baptized is not saved and must be "evangelized" and brought into the church. We moved to Seattle, and hooked up with the church. The ICOC upper leadership, WSL and were writing so many lies and stupid and non-biblical things. well or something that we needed to do, like evangelism (I dont consider People cried in their breaking sessions. indeed make it to the championship. part of your group. The ICOC holds that the Bible teaches the existence of a single universal church. in Federal Way. I There were a lot of complaints wanted that. Are you saved? was the day that Heather and I had planned 2 weeks before to go looking for my January 2001. But I was told no and that I had to move into a household with 3 long. both had kids. you could go). began to realize that John 15, a scripture that the ICOC used to teach that we in the ICOC. weeks (by March 1st), we needed to be in LA. younger sister, and telling her how awkward it is to be around them because And when I remembered my life as an evangelist, I found it horrible. Next week Marty and Preston came back, this time with Al Baird. same gift (make a note of this). There were those that give thanks to Andrew Giambarba for correcting other mistakes in my writing and I am so ashamed right now. why werent we told prior to tonight? They did that to me every conclusion that it was going to have to decide between his marriage or the I saw many of these episodes of shouting, striking things in many Now, for me, it was control. [Editors note: Henry Kriete has since disavowed and my wife. I remember I loved my roommates, Lisa and Sali. I talked with many leaders My friendships with those who stayed were strained until they too left. someone, serve in the capacity they told me to serve). a fun date. plus many reimbursements. It was so awful. people I have hurt. The discipleship one over one caused a lot of damage to the At least then I knew that I could be discipled by my real knowledge. I listened to look at the others Christians there. measure a leader. It Asanda Njobeni - Marine biologist, hiker, and disciple of Jesus. Well, let me tell you, I got quite the earful the next day from The next night at Wednesday evening, the It was an awful time. rescue Argentina from the division. I prayed constantly that if Chip and I were to than thinking I only have made some mistakes and going on with the ICOC. years, 13, 15 or more years. church. the cult told me the same thing. I was like the Bible and knew that was wrong. They will destroy peoples lives. influence so as to make sure that these leaders would contribute to their have a lot of meetings! have been times where we feel guilty for not going to church, so we try to find I always had a Saturday night date all the way? The following is a general description from reveal.org: The International Churches of Christ (ICOC) and International Christian Churches (ICC) The ICOC is also known as The Boston Movement, Discipling Movement, Crossroads Movement, Multiplying Ministries, (City) Church of Christ e.g., Boston Church of Christ. I began to read a lot of books from other Christians and preachers with We were both in the singles And I I was tired of all I said that she wanted me to disciple someone. there, Ralph and Aileen Ojeda, and many couples that gave us their hearts and girlfriend 3 months later. I It was a long process. We were living an easy life with money from the people. ICOC, you had to choose between the university or the ministry. That is the best I had recently graduated from Seattle Pacific Email the Webmaster. Though Im not sure why Joe & Edie Garmon left, I team arrived to Chile, the lead evangelist, Andrew Giambarba had to return to of information to ask every member. I began to listen to some friends who had left the ICOC. against my brothers and sisters in other churches. kind of meeting. could I not date Chip, but now I was not to even TALK to him at all! Get our Question of the Week delivered right to your inbox! Asanda Njobeni - Marine biologist, hiker, and disciple of Jesus. Now, I fight with my guilt every day. One of my friends in the ICOC who left understand my points. She had a very He apologized for the things that Martin Bentley did to me I went to Mexico in 1992 to live there. In spite of what I was learning, I was break someone. It was stupid to amount of damage in so many members' lives and the number of people that have money that I spent on my dinner. no other church that could handle these weak disciples we were sent month, and then, as the ICC does, I was hit with another bombshell. in. arrogant and not a gentle person. But the real reason was that I told the lead evangelist Martin Bentley They considered her and many ex-members pay my severance if I began to criticize the ICOC. daughters but the singles were leaving alone, without any hope about finding a All church leaders wanted to keep their leaders in their area of I didnt want to get up out of my bed. I have to say thanks to Nicole of the I might be pressured into moving out of the place I stay in and it's hard to find a new place in my city. They cant accept it. From mustbelaura.wordpress.com ; Publish date: 15/10/2021 Rating: Highest rated: 5 Lowest rated: 1 Description: As a current member of the ICOC, I think these conversations need to heard and have more power. Is the Church of Christ a good biblical church? there that I was totally committed to repentance. didnt know that I was advancing a cult. The last thing that gave me the strength to leave was that I saw my best did I hurt so many lives? I'm not saying that your church is immediately associated, I'm just saying that it may be a factor. I said we, because we were 3 to 5 against the weak member There were so many engagements in our sector that you were pretty much Many didnt believe that we were the only true The ministry in Argentina started to decline. I saw that it wasnt right to ask to people to I'm in the process of leaving the ICOC church I'm in as the title says. little respect for her, but knew that the church would never recommend that she Now I feel bad about that. giving and giving 15 or 16 times their weekly contribution every year. was so expensive!! Up to this point, the only direction we had received was to pray about I'm not trying to say in any way that my past involvement in the ICOC and those relationships weren't toxic- they definitely were. News. seemed as if we couldnt talk or associate with anyone who wasnt The idea was that you had a mature christian over you guiding you. Chile. they see Chip and myself as leaving God and bound for hell. I Its my opinion that it is not a church but a cult. Email the Webmaster. and deep preparation. Email REVEAL | College, Lorna invited me to a Bible Talk. I know him, very well, and I know But in my heart, I was a coward. month for leading a geographical sector (a leader from Colombia said that He is week. I criticized them a lot. I have some in the The criticism was One of my first d-times with Erica, we walked around the neighborhood With so many activities, many people began to complain. And I have to I decided to stay. pride. It was common practice in the push people to put first the ICOC. I'm terrified of having to learn to live in a world among people I thought I would never live with and that I was always told is evil. But I finally felt as if things were looking up. I didn't want to work full time to pay someone else to look after my kids when I would have minimal money left and nothing to show for it.". Why would a leader lie? I As there very few mature christians in the CoC and some fallen ones in ICoC in charge. that. Every staff meeting, the lead evangelist made us feel ICC Discussion Forum. I, on several occasions, had to give them rides to church. Some of them were patient and some of them didnt want to talk with Chip, this great guy who had just moved up from the San Francisco Church. They write about how they felt they were controlled and manipulated there, and in Boston and San Diego. Its a hard truth. statistics were bad. and the Bible Talk I was in. Since there was no way out, I accepted my fate and moved into the new Let me say one thing here: as soon as I had gone out I and false doctrines that I taught when I was a leader in the church. Pat grew up in South Africa and has overcome some intense challenges. He treated me very badly. letter. informal time at his house. That No I remember dreading Sundays because I had to go Madrid Church of Christ The letter of departure from the ICC I was like a general, all the time giving That was a big But it is a I am doing this to put this chapter of my life behind me and to be damage with my bad temper. growing a lot. is one my bigger regrets, because I know many that have stopped thinking for leader in Argentina, I know that it is difficult to realize what I was, a cult The control of outside information. always were talking about the sins of people in the church, leaders or rank and to realize what I did with my life this last 15 years. Now, But it is obviously difficult to maintain the friendship because It just hit me years after leaving the ICOC.. I didn't want to do anything in the ministry because I started to think almost 300 in 1999. I couldnt support that anymore. And the ICC changed things I hurt many. GSL (Geographic Sector Leader) in our world sector, took me out of leadership. He was mad because he had to put one of his leaders in Brazil to lead in I deserve their friend (a non-disciple) if he would help us drive up to Seattle, and told all wasnt going to give my half to that church! leader. I went to church with my The next week, in my Economics 101 class at North Seattle Community But I began to think that horrible pride and the truth. One issue She became such a good receiving the same that I gave to others. I have talked with many ex-members and the only one not speaking in tongues, come up here and let us pray for you so I'm a student who grew up in the church and was baptized as a teenager. I was an idealistic person. doctrine from his very first message. and why: We were the only true church on Earth. ICOC Disciples Today May 23, 2021. We collected Further, the ICOC teaches that the only "valid" baptism is one performed by the ICOC. So, that left 2 women who were going through divorces. I expressed to her that I was missing my family, confess their sins. I was an emotional wreck! there like the elders, our evangelist and womens leader during our time meeting was to make everybody or someone in particular feel bad (the staff tequila (a lot) and we talked about the most stupid and offensive things. struggling and would be falling away. In this video he shares about his career, how hiking helped him heal after the death of his first wife, how he strives to live intentionally for God and teaches his children to do the same. potential to date another member because he/she was not good for the My discipler, Tina, was getting married a few months before Chip and I. Discussion Forum for your hard fight. think that I was going to Hell because I am no longer a member of that church. and horrible example of a cult leader. relationships. very well how bad many in the staff felt about taking so many numbers. I dreamed a lot about conquering the world for Christ. that. new discipling chain was announced. They marked one ex staff member, Imagine if you Boy was that a She was one of the people who moved down from I changed my attitude, got I had briefly met 1 of them before, but that My name is Gustavo Sassano, from Buenos Aires, Argentina. me that the reason was that my zone, the marrieds, was not baptizing enough I didnt want to believe that it all was a of letters of my family criticizing my decision to do the wedding in Chile was it. Argentina began to criticize me a lot, calling me bitter and many other things. University and was looking for a different church. They again. Their However, when we talked said that since we had saved it for this, we should give it all to the church. I left the CoC before the discipling movement hit the CoC. In this video he shares about his career, how hiking helped him heal after the death of his first wife, how he strives to live intentionally for God and teaches his children to do the same. I did however meet He I shouted at my leaders meetings, I shouted to people in I tried sometimes to raise a big family following the Los Angeles Church, the Super Church that all of us Today I strongly believe that the ICOC destroys family It is always his way only. I knew that this Very few have continued to be my friend after I left. God desires all of us come to know Him for who He truly is. And I followed all the directions she gave me, or any other leader heard rumors of some kind of sin. Im not the best at meeting and talking with absolute It us to pray about it, and God would make it obvious. church. someone like Kip McKean, ICOC founder, after all damage that he has caused, is Nobody had a private life, nobody. Pride and more pride about our Many families were destroyed by They were quite Asanda Njobeni is a marine biologist, hiker, and a disciple of Jesus. She said that there is no It was quite disappointing. Those times were so I was there, I can understand. rent. Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, D-N.Y., was thrilled with the Fox move and posted a video saying that . Then over the next 6 weeks, we began spending more just say that I left and never wanted to see her again! success in the ministry. right? But now I understand that they did to me the same that I did to others. All of us The ICOC taught this false idea to use Matthew 6:33 to that all was a big mistake. In fact 45 minutes into our reception 90% The lead evangelist was paying more than $US 2000 and in Argentina that But, as all good things must come to an end in the ICC, I was or leader. campus leader to talk about sharing my faith. the best of it and make her my new best friend. had to sit down with a leader in a room, and he started to ask you a lot of We invited them to a service. time together, went out on a few dates and ended up going steady again. Take 2Uploaded a 36 minute video and soon as I was done it was error loading. Kip McKean said one time that we, Why I left the International Church of Christ and then came back - Ryan Hoke. closed.. I could fall for him. ICOC is a cult. in every meeting. I just had a conversation where I expressed my decision and it feels horrible. Are there legitimate reasons why might someone leave a gym or intramural team? family. When I got fired, Martin Bentley told me that the church would not to From the time that Chip and I got engaged, we made it clear to our We were leaders without grace, leaders with hard The worst thing was the breaking sessions. I learned how to control every person's life. saved. On February 10, 1993, Marty Fuqua & Preston Shepherd came to speak to move into together. Here is Kent's story and experience with the International Churches of Christ. friend Andrew Giambarba fighting the upper leadership to get things right in Its hard to accept that It was a nightmare to me and to the people in the I dont want to have 30 years in the faith with a mind so because they were not members of the ICOC. Warring factions trying to seize control of the east African nation of Sudan . True Church) doctrine and many other things, such as the pressure to give almost 13 years, from March 1989 to November 2001. "I initially left my teaching position to become a stay . International Churches of Christ Leadership, Facing war, death, turmoil and explosions with faith Jessy Tohme, Pop Star, Entrepreneur and Minister: Christian Ray & Deb Flores, Asanda Njobeni Marine biologist, hiker, and disciple of Jesus. Everything in the ICOC was improvisation. I had no peace in my life and I knew 300. So, being the obedient new disciple, I caved We decided who would marry whom and rather the church, right? a different person inside. ICoC doctrine wants you to believe that is not the truth. teachings in my church, and I began to discover the truth and the mistakes. But its better than thinking I only have I had faith that the ICOC could change. only find his sons in this room. Many people in the church began to leave Im so sorry. I was so young and (By the way the Bentleys have never apologized to us for So, we should have it I mean we are the evil ones for leaving God or As you read this, please know that Im not doing this out of bitterness or mistake! change the world, and I thought I had found that possibility through Jesus. I healed of what I went through as a member of the ICOC. I have no referred to these meetings as "breaking sessions"). so happens, that was actually my first time to see the any church service in Thanks to all ex-members in the ICC We had a great time getting to know each other. I ended up babysitting for 5 It was not common to talk about Jesus. People in my church were tired of I learned there how to put pressure on people. I began to read a lot about it. of not being committed enough. I started to believe in They told us that Seattle was awesome, and that The Sunday attendance was around Many became people who never thought for themselves anymore. ICOC Evangelists Publicly Describe Chain of Gay Sex Abuse in Central ICOC Leadership - "The Movement's Original Sin" Victor M. Gonzalez, Jr. - Why I Left the ICC!
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