My first thought when hearing that autism intelligence data is that people are much more likely to end up with the autistic label if theyre disabled. SYNPSH Company Profile | CROIX, HAUTS DE FRANCE, France | Competitors Yes indeed. As the authors put it: Because the ASD diagnosis is defined by just two symptoms from an individuals complete set of symptoms, an ASD-defined sample is widely over-inclusive, capturing many different lifelong conditions that can arise from a complex combination of multiple genetic and environmental factors (Dawson 2016, para. 46.8k members in the slatestarcodex community. Epistemic status: not too bad, certainly good enough to have my old head of department, a grand old neurogeneticist interested in this if still maintaining healthy scientific skepticism. There are a lot more pathways to leveraging raw intelligence to acquire economic status now than there used to be, but very few that get you all the way to the point that youre fully safe from the tribe (since the tribe is now the nation and is thus also much stronger now). That there is some knob which, as you turn it up, it increases intelligence, until you get it too high and then it blows up due to some fact about the dynamics of the system that we dont understand yet. My personal bet would be that different sorts of mutations associated with autism could be slotted into abstract prior-mapping-affecting categories manifesting through tiny quirks of cellular chemistry, and some degree of interplay between them and those that affect general nervous tissue metabolism and anatomy might also be the case. My bosses at my last job (normal modulo their ethnic origin). 6 6 6 6 6 marries 6 6 6 6 6, decent chance of getting a 9 9 8 7 9 stone cold genius. Theres a range for this parameter, selection in the past has left most of the population too low, but if you push the parameter up too high things will break. Maybe even only a small fraction of potential arrangements are just right to produce ever-increasing levels of some capability in the phenotype. As a practical matter of course these disorder clusters can easily overlap and often do, as seen in the most recent DSM when they allowed co-diagnosis of autism and ADHD for the first time (by popular demand pretty much!). Except that from the sound of it, the IQ/autism risk genes are. Beware Simpsons Paradox. (:D Sorry, couldnt resist the quip; please carry on.). (I.e. One study found that 69% of autistic people had an IQ below 85 (the average IQ of a high school dropout). However, once it exceeds a certain threshold, the network starts learning things that dont make any sense, and then when it tries to correct those mistakes it goes too far in the other direction again. I think top 1% is too low a bar for incredibly. 9 6 5 4 3 marries 9 2 5 4 3, children high chance of 10+ on first and autistic, children that are not autistic are just barely on the bright side of normal. Even when adults with autism live outside the family, their families especially their mothers have extensive contact and involvement in their care. All this leads me to believe that people who are gifted and whos weirdness is more obvious are often misdiagnosed as having Asperger autism. What led me to ask this is stories of people who were deaf from birth whod get cochlear implants as adults. I suspect that this is the case. We often joke that my son learned English as a second language, it appeared that his primary language acquisition pathway just wasnt there. Like everyone else, they find autism risk genes are positively correlated with years of schooling completed, college completion, and IQ. Im somewhere on the autism spectrum and have high levels of anxiety. There are no other cases of autism diagnosed in the immediate family. Overall scores could continue to rise due to the Flynn effect even as intelligence is being selected against on a genetic level, which is what the evidence is suggesting. unsurprisingly, ID is inversely correlated with IQ; ADHD also shows a strong inverse correlation with IQ. Thats probably how he got to that level. Of course, since intelligence and social aptitude seem to have a slight positive correlation, the real number might be closer to 150,000 or 200,000. This pattern is not uncommon (my son followed this trajectory), and is partly responsible for the even less uncommon belief that vaccines cause autism, because the regression coincides with vaccination. But there is a critical point in the system, the feedback point, after which more isnt just too much of a good thing the behavior of the system changes qualitatively and the whole thing breaks down. Pure speculation on my part, but I wonder if part of the link between autism and high intelligence mightnt be explained by a non-linear relationship akin to that between arousal and performance. too many CAG repeats and the area destabilizes and you get runaway anticipation that wipes out later generations of your family. After further consideration, Im unaware of any phenomenon which would correspond to a low-function, low-intelligence version. This is interesting to me, since I am on a career path to become a high end career civil servant, GS-12 at 25 years old for those that know what that means, and I am anything but normal. also didnt say anything about recruitment. control children (though see the discussion here) for some debate over how seriously to take this; I am less sure this is accurate than most of the other statistics mentioned here. While their exact numbers are doubtful, I think the overall finding that common familial genes are much more important than rare de novo mutations survives and is important. Umm, what? a decline in IQ scores, in Norway, Denmark, Australia, Britain, the Netherlands, Sweden, Finland, France and German-speaking countries,[4] a development which appears to have started in the 1990s, the Flynn effect has ended for the majority in developed nations, Research that has examined whether g factor and IQ gains from the Flynn effect are related have found there is a negative correlation between the two. Several studies have shown a genetic link between autism and intelligence; genes that contribute to autism risk also contribute to high IQ. Ill share some info that might or might be helpful, since its just an anecdote. This is a great post. My vague recollection on this is a large portion of population variance in IQ is additive (like 30 or 40%? Intelligence is clearly not a neat and predictable thing, at least beyond certain broad generalizations or thresholds. (1) genes that promote autism are correlated with IQ and Its hard to pin down why this is the case, but I think it is related to the things above, but also to the fact that gifted people tend to be bad at copying other people instinctively. Has paternal/maternal age been eliminated as cofounding factor from parents IQ/autism correlation? The post is laden with unsaid assumptions that do not make sense to me. Plenty of people are both smarter and more charismatic than us. Most cases of autism involve all three of these factors; that is, your overall autisticness is a combination of your familial genes, mutations, and environmental risk factors. If I suggest autism is effectively what we call people whose mental resolution (in the sense of pixels per inch) is too high, would that make sense to you? Crespi suggests that autism is marked by an imbalance between P (as the tower) and V + R (as the foundation). If e.g. My absurdly layman impression of the austistic spectrum suggested that autists might make less use of a heuristic that produces one of those needed side-effects, so the simplest testable prediction springing to mind was that ghost experiences would be absent somewhere in the autistic population. Autism prevalence increase, Deisseroth's "Projections", systems several essentailly different things being lumped together under the label autism spectrum. The result is a total mess. A mutation in the pigment for the red cone allows a person to see two shades of red. Having more diverse cones means that they can differentiate shades of red that other people would see as identical. Im not sure how normal she is, but an acquaintance through RenFaire is head of some Army Corps of Engineers office in the Bay Area, and shes one of the very few people I consider noticeably more intelligent than me. Blindness, Schizophrenia, and Autism : r/slatestarcodex There are ways to reduce the loop gain of the system to increase the maximum gain before feedback, but ultimately they involve careful sound engineering theres no general parameter you can turn down to fix the problem, because the primary parameter you _want_ is the same one that causes the breakdown. Spoiler alert: ASD in adults was estimated to be 1%. I knew a wrestler back in college, really huge and muscular dude. Right, genes are NOT good or bad. Assortative Mating And Autism | Slate Star Codex As far as I can tell, the explosion in diagnoses is primarily driven not by the very low-functioning (everyone could already tell that non-verbal folks had something wrong with them) but by increased diagnosis of medium-to-high-functioning people. If you get much past that, all intelligible sound will cease and be replaced by a terrible noise that wasnt exhibited _anywhere_ prior in the range of the knob. Why on Earth people take a decomposition of intelligence quotient such as the v-p-r, while itself fairly reasonable sounding but also very broad, and take seriously attempts to shoehorn that as the biological mechanism behind a very handwavy metaphor-like explanation such as tower and foundation?It is blatantly obvious that v-p-r is a very crude model that should not make sense. That, combined with intentional software creation can lead to more or less high functioning autists. Metaculus is a platform for generating crowd-sourced predictions about the future, especially science and technology. Thats exactly what we observe here. Well, I think its certainly a reasonable possibility, which in my experience appears to be true, that beyond a certain point, intelligence either directly causes weirdness or is reliant upon it as a foundation. Poor people have a higher infant mortality rate than rich people do. One of our children is an Asperger (labelled as high functioning autistic in the DSM). Guys autism is not a thing. autism is effectively what we call people whose mental resolution (in the sense of pixels per inch) is too high. I was thinking of Sickle Cell Anemia, where if you get the gene from one parent you are immune to malaria, while if you get from both, your blood cant carry enough oxygen. Humans have been selectively breeding themselves since the dawn of civilization, even if we werent consciously aware of it; reproductively speaking, the traits that are selected for in an organized society are bound to differ than those that wouldve been selected for in the wild. Im reminded of the Simon Baron-Cohen theory about autism being like an extreme male brain in some sense. This meant that theyd routinely turn them off. There was definitely a sperg-normie dynamic on my last work team, all highly intelligent. My 3rd child, a girl, is much lower functioning. Seattle Anxiety Specialists are a therapy practice helping people overcome anxiety and related mental health issues (eg GAD, OCD, PTSD) through evidence based interventions and self-exploration. Quite a few trans women seem to be extremely masculine in their interests. > (which are around 80% to 90%; the authors are embarrassed by this, and in a later study suggest they might just have been bad at determining who in their sample did or didnt have autism. All this is a purely hypothetical thought-experiment, of course. ASD has no reliable early predictor, no unitary developmental course, no unitary life outcome, no unitary recurrence risk, no unitary pattern of BAP features, and no standard homogeneous subgroups. In Graph A, we see that if a child has autism (but not intellectual disability), their likelihood of having a father with any particular IQ (orange line) is almost the same as the likelihood of a neurotypical child having a father of that IQ (dotted line). Ive certainly known highly intelligent people who did not seem to be crazy or disfunctional in any obvious way. Most of these seem to be related to social ability. Seems like it could apply if there were many genes of small but overlapping effect, so that one particular aspect of mental performance is sometimes pushed past the breaking point. Does affliction rates vary with age of both parents? More, you have probably already settled into an existence that minimizes their importance to you by the time you have enough information to piece together the importance of predictability. The genes and developmental stuff is one part, an enriching environment in childhood is another, and the physical requirements (adequate nutrition and good health and few toxins present during critical parts of brain development in childhood, continued good health in adulthood). But the Gardner study also ceilings off at 90th percentile intelligence, so at this point Im not sure what to tell these people. But her personal life is a mess. The line here has an extra close-paragraph symbol, > (though see the discussion here) for some debate over how seriously to take this; I am less sure this is accurate than most of the other statistics mentioned here), which I assume is the one missing from the later section here. Instead of autism causing low IQ, low IQ (in a mental architecture that typically causes high IQ) would cause autism, and then of course when you look at the relatives of a downwards outlier you will find higher IQ. Assortative Mating And Autism : slatestarcodex Norwegian founders with an international team on a mission to offer the equivalent of a Norwegian social safety net globally available as a membership. Ive since backed off of it a bit, maybe not because I think its wrong but because theres possibly a larger and more interesting explanation for what we see, which is that both the collection of deficits that go with low-functioning ASD and the neural efficiencies that go with high IQ are both at least partially caused by a twitchier immune system, which in turn is creating a different profile of synaptic pruning as the brain develops. Low IQ people are more likely to end up dead or in jail, and are less likely to be in stable nuclear families. Pretending that people with autism diagnoses are typical of people with autism is useful when trying to treat the symptoms of autism; but ignoring less symptomatic people results in ineffective studies when trying to figure out causes and effects. Second, even if the test itself is good, autistic people may be bad at test-taking for other reasons for example, they dont understand the directions, or theyre anxious about the social interaction required to answer an examiners quetsions. In the graph of relatives, are autists typically on the border or inside of high-IQ regions? There are so many ways to be weird and out of touch with the people around you, related to very different sets of issues and characteristics. Its not difficult to guess what someones response would be to many chit-chat topics. Someone at the 99.0 percentile for intelligence would probably seem quite mediocre by SSC standards. This seems a possible explanation, if high-IQ parents have children significantly later, I like the tower explanation, but not so much the different types of intelligences: maybe autism is a combination of rare IQ-boosting alleles inherited from parents, together with high general genetic load (which, among other detrimental effects, decrease IQ, negating the IQ-boosting alleles). The existence of a well-defined subset of low IQ people whose relatives have higher-than-predicted IQs is a surprising finding that cuts through the measurement difficulties and suggests that this is a real phenomenon. This is consistent with the existence of people in the past who seem to be about as bright as humans get. 10 hours ago View Detailed Check-in. When she was three, she had symptoms of autism. We're always hiring talented programmers, traders, and researchers and have internships and fulltime positions in New York, London, and Hong Kong. I dont think this paragraph fits the note in the image. Many definitions of autism center around forms of poor functioning which are correlated with low intelligence. ), but the non-additive portion is of roughly comparable size. Also, the Gardner paper has analyzed autistic patients fathers by subtype of intelligence, and there is a nonsignificant but pretty suggestive tendency for them to have higher-than-normal verbal intelligence; certainly no signs of high verbal intelligence preventing autism. So the genes are a correlation but not a cause of the autism, which is due to factors incidentally related to the high IQ, for example the advanced age of the parents? This isn't the fun "really likes trains a lot" kind of autism but the "will scream for an hour if I point out a mistake on his math homework" kind and the "I can't hire a babysitter because they've all . (2) Genes associated with autism arent being selected for my kid who is on the spectrum is 12 and ok functioning (doing well in middle school) i cant imagine what would get us into the therapist office to do an IQ test. And it would also explain why there are many extremely intelligent people who dont have autism at all (you can build arbitrarily tall towers if your foundation is strong enough). Its possible some degree of politics was involved in this decision: The World Health Organization also is eliminating Asperger syndrome from its International Classification of Diseases. Social rituals are incredibly important though, humans are social animals. It also becomes meaningless to say that no highly intelligent people are normal, since by definition, highly intelligent people will think in different ways than people with average intelligence. I dont know what to make of this: Underconnectivity in autistic brains account for sensory integration differences and gifts. But that wouldnt be the way to bet, IMO. Similarly, you would expect lower rates of male-to-female transgender identity among the population of people on the autism spectrum who came equipped with that Y chromosome. This has nothing to do with the OP, but I will definitely comment on your wrestling example, as a wrestler. (And maybe theres some kind of subtype of autism > size of correlation thing happening, too. Karpinksi et al. I.e. At least part of the story is that there are at least three different causes of autism. Posted on June 15, 2020 by Scott Alexander. Some of the genetic diseases of Eastern Eurpoean Jews are correlated with intelligence, IIRC, but I dont think they have mental effects. Id say his IQ is similar to or higher than mine (around 135.). If the foundation isnt strong enough for the tower, the system fails, you develop autism, and you get a collection of symptoms possibly including low intelligence. And thus a little more involvement from the microglia in utero or during early childhood might lead to a more efficient neural configuration and a higher IQ, especially if the involvement is more concentrated in the brain regions with more of an evolutionarily enforced margin toward resilience/survival rather than cognitive performance in normal humans. He is the most Civil Servicy person around. I mean, doesnt that just mean there are lots of hyper-parameters and you can push one set outside the optimal range without maxing out everything? How much do we know about how intelligence develops and what might impact it? Either way, I dont think you can have one without the other above a certain level. Other interesting question if the Flynn effect is more important than genetics and our mean IQ is 15 points higher than 100 years ago: where are all the geniuses? (And, just to acknowledge what I suspect was the subtext of this entire post, thats really bad news for people who want to get significant IQ gains from genetic engineering.). why is the medical establishment making confident claims regarding the connection between his condition and high-functioning autism? For, Then Against, High-Saturated-Fat Diets Hunter gatherers do eat certain roots and tubers, so it's not . Engineer/scientist social mixers with barbers/hairdressers and fashion merchandisers Since the definition of autism (as noted by Scott and discussed elsewhere in the comments) is primarily symptomatic, that means you only get the diagnosis if you display symptomatic behaviors meeting a certain noticeable threshold. Fall short of that threshold and you have a pile of severely broken processes. Two of our three kids had extremely large heads as babies. My original post talked about dual axes, functionality and intelligence, with non-functional high intelligence becoming, effectively, a distinct kind of low intelligence. If youre trying to compare the IQs of parents and children, you need to have both the parents and children, and be sure that the parents are in fact the parents of the children in question. And so humans recently had/still are having a massive selection for genes that require lower thresholds for immune responses, and genes that outsource some of the immune de-escalation responsibilities to gut microbes and parasites, etc in order to get a faster jump have proliferated to the point where a lot of these are normal now; this is the hygiene hypothesis or old friends hypothesis and the best outline of I can offer for it is the book An Epidemic of Absence by Moises Velazquez-Manoff. And also reproducing younger (banking frozen eggs and/or sperm early for the IVF). (3) Genes that promote autism and IQ are being selected for DESPITE other genes that promote IQ being selected AGAINST, so we would expect to see the representation of autism in (the dwindling fraction of) high-IQ families explode in the coming decades. I was a bit of an outlier in my family, and didnt really find a peer group I fitted in with until university. Hes amazing! The lectins in wheat interfere with leptin receptors, making people leptin resistant and therefore obese. The Tower vs Foundation model seems to treat intelligence as if its an attribute like height or arm length; the modification of some static variable. Lazy googling yields claims around 80% narrow-sense (additive) heritability for height which is comparable to the total heritability of IQ. We both spent a lifetime getting scolded because we were obviously too smart for the dumb stuff we kept doing (grades and the like). Assuming that intelligence is neither positively nor negatively correlated with social skills, that means 1% of those 75 million people would also be in the top percentile for social aptitude, for a total of 750,000 people. At times she has been productively employed in a technological field. And we know that theres differential infant mortality rates. These are just three randomly-selected studies; there are too many to be worth listing. We dont have an understanding of how autism exists in the general populace so our data is skewed towards the worst because of where that data comes from. Slate Star Codex was a blog by Scott Alexander about human cognition Press J to jump to the feed. A couple of things about her birth stand out when comparing the two with the other children. Im going to interpret fitting in as being liked.. She has absolute pitch, [] an amazingly high proportion of her autistic students have it to some degree. Third, and most important, there is a strong selection bias in the samples of autistic people. Maybe specific areas for different such quirks of processing have some optimal Goldilocks zones for their values, which if all fit might give you some sort of the upper bounds of human intelligence-maybe there are multiple such optimal/viable configurations, however hitting all the targets simultaneously must be relatively rare, and some of the targets might be smallish, others might be essentially fixed without some de novo mutation for likely good evolutionary reasons. Shes a real handful to deal with and that deters quality men from being interested in her. And of course theres always survivor bias. But many do it for positive outcomes versus negative pressure, which is how I interpreted your question. This study of three large birth cohorts finds a correlation between genetic risk for autism and cognitive ability (beta = 0.07). In primary school, for a while we used to have daily spelling tests, where we had to spell ten words. The reality is that weight training only increases strength in the motion of the lifts that you do. 6. The dangling paren is disquieting enough to have prompted me to make an account: most of the other statistics mentioned here). Under the DSM-5, autism is characterized by persistent deficits in social communication and interaction across multiple contexts, as well as restricted, repetitive patterns of behavior, interests, or activities. EDIT: If it is, that could explain some of these results. My stats-fu isnt strong enough to know if this actually pencils out, though. This one comes from Gardner et al (2019), which measures the cognitive ability of the fathers of autistic people and disaggregates those with and without intellectual disability. But its frankly unclear who it is talking about. You could compare those estimates for IQ to those for height. For that matter, some amazing ingenuity went into ancient engineeringenough so that I think we still dont know exactly how the Incas built Machu Pichu or the Egyptians built the pyramids. Dr. Laura Baur is a psychiatrist with interests in literature review, reproductive psychiatry, and relational psychotherapy; see her website for more. I believe autism is largely genetic and the genes that are associated with autism mainly perform functional roles in brain development and brain function. I. I think (as an interested amateur, not an expert) that the most plausible answer is that human intelligence depends on getting lots of stuff right. 54K subscribers in the slatestarcodex community. Even if intelligence is analogous to running fast or having a good immune system, the tower/foundation model is still workable. Low-functioning autism has all kinds of genetic linkages to all kinds of different genetic syndromes that cause brain damage, damage that often extends beyond autistic symptoms. People running an emulation of normal are usually not staggeringly intelligent. (Then also add to that the fact that people making a big deal out of Wow you can do this thing! can be super unpleasant). Big muscles can also reduce range of motion. Like many DSM diagnoses it is a junkheap of often unrelated symptoms wrapped up in a single label for essentially politically reasons. Theres probably not anyone working in math right now who is any smarter than Gauss was. The change is even starker at the extremes. So far, this is still 70% wish-casting to 30% reality-aligned. Pollution, infection, and trauma might also be in this basket. Heck, maybe there are two different underlying conditions here that have similar enough symptoms that we categorize them together (per Scotts observation in his The Body Keeps the Score review that we tend to categorize psychiatric disorders heavily by effect, because the cause is so murky). Yes. The brain has hyperparameters, just like an artificial neural network. Im not an expert on biology or genetics or neuropsychology by any means, but I feel like youre onto something with the tower-and-foundation model. We cant do much about the genetic or random developmental stuff, but we can make sure most of the things that have stunted peoples intelligence over time go away. For such individuals, perfect pitch is almost always the indicator that highly refined processing is available in these areas of immediate reception of sound. Wow! 43 votes, 61 comments. If you are an expert in X, and the popular understanding of X is X, you will end up having the exact same conversation about X every time. This would be consistent with the idea that more aggressive screening (which is likely to be most aggressive at schools full of white kids because those schools have better resources for such things on average) would cause this effect size to shrink considerably if not vanish.
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